Finding the correct scale... Theory question

[Jawn]

Hey guys,

This has been bugging me for a while. When I learn a song, I usually just learn the chord progression and if there is a solo I like to improvise it. However, what I struggle with is finding a correct scale to improvise over when its solo time. I can do the basic 12 bar progression thing, but I get stuck otherwise. Is there any system or something to work it out?

Cheers.

[Julia]

My teacher always told me that if it's a major chord progression, a minor or major scale will work. However, a major scale won't sound good over a minor progression. Also, you can work with relative minors, for example an Em pentatonic scale will work over a G major chord. That's about the extent of my knowledge, sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.

[too cool for hyphens ed]

Hey guys,

This has been bugging me for a while. When I learn a song, I usually just learn the chord progression and if there is a solo I like to improvise it. However, what I struggle with is finding a correct scale to improvise over when its solo time. I can do the basic 12 bar progression thing, but I get stuck otherwise. Is there any system or something to work it out?

Cheers.

Can you recognise the chord structure of a song, and tell whether it's minor or major, or atonal, or whatever?

If you can, you can usually work out the key by finding the I chord. If the chords C G F, then the song would be in C, because it is the scale which all the note names for the chords are in.

I can figure this kind of stuff out usually, but i don't know the correct wayt to explain it without actually telling you in person with a musical instrument there.

I also find that a lot of songs, newer ones especially, use just powerchords, with no 3rd to classify them as major or minor. This gives you more freedom to solo, but ultimately can sound more boring. It can be similar with simple riff-based music as well.

I'm not too clued in on modal chord stuff, otherwise i'd help you more.

Does that help at all mate?

[Jawn]

yeah cheers buddy. I know of the basic rule that if the progression usually starts and end on the same chord, you got your key, but I know it can get a lot more complicated than that. I think the only way is to memorise what notes are in each key and see what scales fit around that. I didn't know if there was a simple pattern or anything, as a lot of music theory revolves around patterns.

[Armistice]

When I would do sax solos for jazz in high school, we'd use the scale that we're playing in. If we're playing in Bb... then the solo is in Bb. You can also do the I, III, V version also

[Incognito]

There are a few ways to go about it, but it all depends on how much theory knowledge you have. How is your understanding of intervals and chords and their relationship to scales and keys and their relevant modes? There is only 1 pattern. Think of it this way, there isn't 12 different keys, there is only 1 key that can start at 12 different places. This is why most things are refered to in numbers. For example, C in the Key of Aminor is the minor 3rd. Playing the Aminor scale starting on that minor 3rd (ie. playing exactly the same notes but starting on C instead of A) will give you the Aeolian mode which is a major mode, thus the III chord in Aminor is a major chord (as indicated by the uppercase roman numeral, lower case [iii] indicates minor). It doesn't matter what minor key you are playing in, the 3rd degree of that key is always a minor 3rd interval and a III chord. Starting the minor scale on that minor 3rd will always give you the aeolian mode. There is only 1 pattern.

[Julian]

Music theory makes my head hurt

[Sp0t]

Keep in mind that the root chord in the progression does not necessarily begin and end. For example, if you hear a II V chord progression (D-G for example), you know you're in the key of C. in a II V chord progression (B-E), you're in the key of A, etc. etc.

A lot of knowing the right key and matching the appropriate scale would be found in the chord progression and "spelling out" the notes in the chords. I'm still learning theory myself, so I hope this helps a little.

[tainted_love]

I never learnt theory, as I taught myself to play guitar. I feel I'm missing out on something important. Naming chords is about the extend of my theory knowlege.

[Sp0t]

yeah, i felt the same exact way. i was self-taught for several years (and very proud of it) but i felt i hit a glass ceiling and caved into being taught theory. It's really the only way to know WHY a chord progression goes toghether, why the notes of a solo are being played in that songs, why certain riffs work and other dont, inversion of chords, etc. etc.

you could try to teach yourself theory, but it's so damn confusing (unless you're one of those natural musical ear bastards, in which case we can't speak anymore) that you're going to need someone to ask questions and go over things with you. i've been getting formal lessons for a little over half a year and i feel like i've barely scratched the surface.